Speed vs bufferbloat and looking for some advice...

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gelliss
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 10:06 am

Speed vs bufferbloat and looking for some advice...

Post by gelliss »

I'm currently using Volaris's simple QoS setup from here:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=11167

I seem to lose about 30-40% of my maximum speed from sftp downloads and speed tests when using QoS with ACC enabled. On the plus side, my bufferbloat goes from D or C to A on DSLreports speed tests with QoS enabled on the download side.

Another problem I've noticed is bufferbloat stays bad if i enable QoS on the upload. I have a 100/10 connection that's over-provisioned so I usually get about 118/12 on speed tests. I've set download bandwidth in QoS to 115000 and upload to 10000.

Anyone have a clue why enabling QoS on the upload side makes the bufferbloat go to crap again and is my 30-40% loss in speed normal when QoS is enabled?

I have the Archer c7 v2 router and Gargoyle 1.10.

d3fz
Posts: 277
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:34 pm

Re: Speed vs bufferbloat and looking for some advice...

Post by d3fz »

gelliss wrote:Anyone have a clue why enabling QoS on the upload side makes the bufferbloat go to crap again

Setting Upload total bandwidth value too high could lead to that. Make sure you set your "Total Bandwidth" values accordingly to this tutorial.
is my 30-40% loss in speed normal when QoS is enabled?
It's normal. Basically, it means that you need a faster router to make use of all that speed with QoS enabled. If that's not possible, there's a workaround discussed on this thread.
TP-Link Archer C7 v2 - Gargoyle 1.12.X
TP-Link WR842ND v2 - Gargoyle 1.10.X
TP-Link RE450 AC v2 - Stock FW 1.0.4
TP-Link WA850RE v1.2 - LEDE 17.01.1

gelliss
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 10:06 am

Re: Speed vs bufferbloat and looking for some advice...

Post by gelliss »

Thanks much. I will check out that other thread.

gelliss
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 10:06 am

Re: Speed vs bufferbloat and looking for some advice...

Post by gelliss »

d3fz wrote: Setting Upload total bandwidth value too high could lead to that. Make sure you set your "Total Bandwidth" values accordingly to this tutorial.

Interesting. I get over 11Mpbs upload without QoS. I tried setting Qos to use 11000, 10500, 10000, 9000 and 8000.

Every time my bufferbloat on dslreports comes back better without QoS enabled on the upload side.

In other words, it starts out at D or C without QoS at all. When I enable the download QoS and ACC the bufferbloat registers A. When I turn on the upload QoS it goes back to C or maybe B no matter what I set the bandwidth to.

Is there any reason to leave the upload QoS on given that?

Turning off Gargoyle's Bandwidth monitoring and graphs did give back much of my lost download speed.

d3fz
Posts: 277
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:34 pm

Re: Speed vs bufferbloat and looking for some advice...

Post by d3fz »

gelliss wrote:When I enable the download QoS and ACC the bufferbloat registers A. When I turn on the upload QoS it goes back to C or maybe B no matter what I set the bandwidth to.
What's the "Ping Target IP" in ACC set to?
Is there any reason to leave the upload QoS on given that?
I don't think QoS will work properly (or at all?) with Upload disabled, especially if you have specific rules in this direction.
Turning off Gargoyle's Bandwidth monitoring and graphs did give back much of my lost download speed.
Were you able to reach max speed with BWMon disabled? If you don't use/need Quotas, Bandwidth Data Tracking (graphs, logs), that's one way to go.

I also own a Archer C7, but in my case I'm on a 50MB/6MB connection. It handles max speed just fine with everything enabled. I believe it's limitations starts showing on >75MB connections...
TP-Link Archer C7 v2 - Gargoyle 1.12.X
TP-Link WR842ND v2 - Gargoyle 1.10.X
TP-Link RE450 AC v2 - Stock FW 1.0.4
TP-Link WA850RE v1.2 - LEDE 17.01.1

gelliss
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 10:06 am

Re: Speed vs bufferbloat and looking for some advice...

Post by gelliss »

d3fz wrote: What's the "Ping Target IP" in ACC set to?
I tried leaving it off and tried setting it to google's 8.8.8.8 but it didn't seem to make a difference.
I don't think QoS will work properly (or at all?) with Upload disabled, especially if you have specific rules in this direction.
Hmm, It must be doing something because with the download QoS turned on, my bufferbloat was almost gone. It's only when I turn the upload on that it comes back again.
Were you able to reach max speed with BWMon disabled? If you don't use/need Quotas, Bandwidth Data Tracking (graphs, logs), that's one way to go.
No, I wasn't able to reach max speed but got about 90%
I also own a Archer C7, but in my case I'm on a 50MB/6MB connection. It handles max speed just fine with everything enabled. I believe it's limitations starts showing on >75MB connections...
I never bothered with QoS before. I only started playing with it when I got this magicjack to handle home phones. I was worried about voice calls getting bad if I was downloading large files.

I ended up reinstalling Gargoyle 1.10 again and playing with the default QoS settings and service classes. I've got the bufferbloat all but gone now with A A A ratings on dslreport's tests. I don't know if the defaults are best for me or not. It does still slow my sftp downloads by quite a bit.

I have another question now. Is there a way to get the default settings and Service Classes back again without having to reinstall the firmware? If not, it would be a nice addition to the QoS settings page. Something like a "return to defaults" without having to reset everything else in the firmware.

Playing around with this has given me something to do anyway. I initially used Volaris's settings of just one "Normal" service class. That's when i was running in to the problem with bufferbloat coming back when initializing the upload QoS.

d3fz
Posts: 277
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:34 pm

Re: Speed vs bufferbloat and looking for some advice...

Post by d3fz »

gelliss wrote:I never bothered with QoS before. I only started playing with it when I got this magicjack to handle home phones. I was worried about voice calls getting bad if I was downloading large files.
Well, that necessity will depend on your household, number of devices, type of application, etc. For me, QoS is a must have feature nowadays. No more complaints about "The internet is slow", "Who's hogging the WiFi?", "Could you please stop watching Netflix for the next hour or two, so I can play online without lag?". Such common scenarios these days... Gargoyle's QoS solved all that. :lol:
I ended up reinstalling Gargoyle 1.10 again and playing with the default QoS settings and service classes.
By Gargoyle 1.10, you mean the version from the "Download" section, or the latest build 1.10.X? If it's the first, I strongly suggest that you try the latest build, as a lot of improvements/bug fixes were made up to this point. Like this new version of the QoS monitor, for example.
I have another question now. Is there a way to get the default settings and Service Classes back again without having to reinstall the firmware? If not, it would be a nice addition to the QoS settings page. Something like a "return to defaults" without having to reset everything else in the firmware.

Luckily, there is.
1) Access the router through WinSCP, and copy /rom/etc/config/qos_gargoyle to /etc/config/qos_gargoyle.
2) Go to Firewall -> QoS Download. Click "Save Changes".
3) Done.
Last edited by d3fz on Mon May 14, 2018 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TP-Link Archer C7 v2 - Gargoyle 1.12.X
TP-Link WR842ND v2 - Gargoyle 1.10.X
TP-Link RE450 AC v2 - Stock FW 1.0.4
TP-Link WA850RE v1.2 - LEDE 17.01.1

gelliss
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 10:06 am

Re: Speed vs bufferbloat and looking for some advice...

Post by gelliss »

d3fz wrote: By Gargoyle 1.10, you mean the version from the "Download" section, or the latest build 1.10.X? If it's the first, I strongly suggest that you try the latest build, as a lot of improvements/bug fixes were made up to this point. Like this new version of the QoS monitor, for example.

Thanks much for your help.
To be honest, I didn't even know about the newer builds. I was using the last "stable" build from the download site. I see this newer one is using just a single Service Class in the download QoS, much like what Volaris recommended. I'm using it now and have all A's on dslreports speed and bufferbloat test. I did go from 118 down to about 100 in that test but that's acceptable. I suppose I might even get some of that back if I disable the bandwidth monitor again but I'll leave it like this for now.

d3fz
Posts: 277
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:34 pm

Re: Speed vs bufferbloat and looking for some advice...

Post by d3fz »

No worries, glad I could help. 8-)
gelliss wrote: To be honest, I didn't even know about the newer builds. I was using the last "stable" build from the download site.
That's probably what about 95% of new users search/download it from. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. But if you'd like to keep up with latest changes, keep an eye on this forum section, where new "beta" builds are released every two weeks or so.
I see this newer one is using just a single Service Class in the download QoS, much like what Volaris recommended. I'm using it now and have all A's on dslreports speed and bufferbloat test.
Yes, this suggestion was working great for so many people, that the devs decided to put it as the default setup, thus keeping things nice and simple for QoS first time users.
I did go from 118 down to about 100 in that test but that's acceptable. I suppose I might even get some of that back if I disable the bandwidth monitor again but I'll leave it like this for now.
Were you able to reach ~100MB just by flashing the latest build? Not touching BWMon or anything? If so, that's quite interesting...
TP-Link Archer C7 v2 - Gargoyle 1.12.X
TP-Link WR842ND v2 - Gargoyle 1.10.X
TP-Link RE450 AC v2 - Stock FW 1.0.4
TP-Link WA850RE v1.2 - LEDE 17.01.1

gelliss
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 10:06 am

Re: Speed vs bufferbloat and looking for some advice...

Post by gelliss »

d3fz wrote: Were you able to reach ~100MB just by flashing the latest build? Not touching BWMon or anything? If so, that's quite interesting...
Close though it varies a bit from one test to another. Flashing to the latest build and without QoS, I was still getting 118.x down and 11.x up on the dslreports tests but my bufferbloat was D.

Using the default QoS options on the latest build I get around 93/10 I have my QoS bandwidth limits at 150000 and 10000 respectively. Bufferbloat is listed as A.

I haven't turned BWmonitor off but may still try that to see if I can get more of the speed back. I'm still losing about 25Mbit/s off the top speed but it's better than the last stable build was.

This is with QoS on.
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